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Mary
0:00:00
Something that businesꦯses take for granted, that they need to stop taking for granted right this
minute, is that if you confuse, you lose. People do not buy the products that are communicated thꦿ✤e
most cleverly. They buy the products that are communicated the clea♔rest. Donald Miller says this as
part of StoryBrand. If you are not, you wil꧋l lose every single time, an🍰d most likely to one of your top
competitors.
Mary
0:00:29
So this is something you 🌳cꦡannot ignore. Your messaging has to be a top priority and clarified as
soon as possible.
Alex
0:00:36
Welcome back to Endless Custo🌺mers. My namওe is Alex Winter and today we are joined by Mary
Brown, our lead web strategist here at I🐷mpact Mary. Welcome back to the show.
Mary
0:00:52
Hey, thanks Alex.
Mary
0:00:53
Good to be here.
Alex
0:00:54
Great to have you here. And today we're talking about something really cool. We're talking abꦕout
StoryBrand, which is a great book, great framework. Donaldꦉ Miller, we're big fans. But I think there's
a lot oౠf people out there that don't know about StoryBrand. So before we get int𝔉o like the nitty gritty
pieces of how to implement and roll out and
Alex
0:01:07
like use StoryBrand to your advantage with your business, can you jusꦑt like high level tell us what
StoryBrand's all about.
Mary
0:01:13
Yeah. So the StoryBrand framework is a marketing strategy💙 tool based on sto🥂rytelling principles. So
it revolve🤪s around the idea that 🐼people naturally connect with stories. And it allows you to leverage
stories
Mary
0:01:26
to help people emotionally🌺 connect to your messaging.
Alex
0:01:30
Nice, 🔥very nice. And why iꦓs that important? Because I feel like a lot of businesses, it's all about P&L.
It's 𓃲all about making money, sales, bringing in leads, and it's ve💛ry black and white, and it almost
loses that emotional piece

 

Alex
0:01:43
tha🌜t really is the story brand piece that people connect with, and that people make buying decisions
on, because⛎ we know people make buying decisions based off their emotions.
Mary
0:01:50
Absolutely, and the reason that it works is because it's based in certain principles o🐠f storytelling, and
it's grounded in, we'll say, three main principles that I like 🧸to hearken back to. One of them is that
you are not the hero of the story. Your customer is the ౠhero of the st❀ory.
Mary
0:02:09
And this totally flips the script, right✨? You have to make sure that your prospect is centered on the
story. Next is that ⛦you have to set the stakes. So a 𒈔lot of people kind of recoil at this a little bit and
they say, I don't want to get negative,
Mary
0:02:22
I don't want to ꧃set stakes. But if peop൲le don't know what's at stake by not working with you, then
they're not set u𒉰p for the value proposition. They're r⭕eally not.
Alex
0:02:30
Right, so true.
Mary
0:02:32
And the last one is that your company is the guide. So if our prospect♕ is the hero of the story, you
are the guide. And it'𓂃s all about trust and building trust with that prospect, that potential customer,
that you caꦗn guide th♍em to that outcome that they're looking for. And this is where all the emotion
comes into play because you are basing it on that trust, being the guide to their hero, ജsetting the
stakes,
Mary
0:02:56
all that good stuff, and it works.
Alex
0:02:59
It ☂definitely works. A𒀰nd I think that's also why we love Storybrand and the whole framework here at
Impact because it pairs ver🥀y well with They Ask, You Answer in the sense that we're trying to build
trust. And we do that through communication
Alex
0:03:10
and we do thaܫt through telling a good story and conveying our brand messaging in an authentic and
real way.
Mary
0:03:17
Yeah, absolutely. Very cool.

 

Alex
0:03:19
So, you work with a ton of companies, you work with a ton🐲 of brands,🐈 all different industries, B2B,
B2C, when it comes to building their website🅺s, redesigning💎 their websites, helping them fix things
t🃏hat are broken withജ their websites, whatever the case may be, you seem to do it all. How does
StoryBrand play into yo♛ur approach and how you handle these sorts of situations⛄ on your
day-to-day.
Mary
0:03:40
There are so🍎 many reasons why StoryBrand is perfect for websites and why it lends really⛎ well to
implementing on a ꦯwebsite. So one of them is that websites are all about crafti🌃ng a specific message
and you can really tailor your audience on different pages. I mean your𒀰 story on your home page
might be different on a solution page and you're able🐟 to t🦋ell those unique stories on those pages. So
it works really well. Totally.
Mary
0:04:05
Another is structure. So websites are inhere🧸ntly structured, right? You have headings, you have
body copy, you have 🌠c♔alls to action. And StoryBrand is really process-driven for how you're moving
people through the buyer's journey, and that structure allows for that process to really be🦂 built
beautifully within a website.
Alex
0:04:23
Right. That makes sense.
Mary
0:04:25
Okay. Another is the visual element. So, believe it 𒅌or🍸 not, storytelling very much has to do with
visuals as well because visuals are so grea🌺t at evoking emotion. So, think aღbout all the photos, all
the video🧜s that you're going to put on your website. They can really help tell that story and evok🐻e
more emotion in ways that just written words
Mary
0:04:43
can't.
Alex
0:04:44
And they can enhance the written words as well.
12
0:04:47
Yeah.
Alex
0:04:48
Which is why it's importan🧸t to not just go to i🍸Stock and grab a bunch of random photos. Not that
iStock isn📖't great, but pulling random photos that aren't your people, that aren't your brand, that
aren't your company.

 

Mary
0:04:58
For real.
Alex
0:04:59
Doesn't seem like the right move, right?
Mary
0:05:00
For real.
Mary
0:05:01
We tell peo🤡ple that all the time, and I'm glad you said, you know, not that iStock isn't bad. We always
advocate for a mix, right? You wanna have a mix. You wanna have some stock photog𓆉raphy, that'𒅌s
fine,
Mary
0:05:09
b꧟ut you wanna have your people in there too, so they can see that we are human. We feel
emotions. We connect with people. And that helps build that trust as well to see that we are rไeal
people who service real people.
Alex
0:05:21
൲Yeah. And real people also, we've been using this technology f✨or a while now. So the phones and
the internet and all this stuff, especially with AI, p💙eople are smarter now and they know when it's not
an authe🎃ntic photo. People know when it's a stock photo or a stock video or it's maybe a computer
generated type of thing. People are🀅 getting a lot more savvy, as Jack Sparrow would🐼 say.
Mary
0:05:42
They are savvy, and I'm glad you brou🌱ght up how long we've been used to this type of thing.
Because when you think about storytelling, stories were painteﷺd on cave walls. That's how long
storytelling has been part✱ of being a human being and how we connect to other hum♈an beings.
Mary
0:05:57
So that's why this is a tale of old as time. It's totally timeless. It wi🐓ll never go away, and that's why it
works. But another reason why this is so great on websites is because websites sh🦩ould focus on
benefits. And I say should becauseꦕ I can't tell you
Mary
0:06:12
how often I look at a website and they just feature dump, right? It'ꦬs like, we have this, we have that,
we have this feature♋, we have that feature. But when you tell a story, you need to talk about the
benefits.
Mary
0:06:23
You need to paint the picture of how☂ it makes life better🌃. That is such a huge part of StoryBrand, and
a website should do that if you're do⛄ing it right.

 

Alex
0:06:32
Yeah, it should. And it goes back to what you were saying, where I think a lot o♛f companies, and I've
done this in the past too, I'ꦓm a small business owner, where it's all about me. It's like, look at all th🔯e
cool things I can do,
Alex
0:06:40
look ♌at my degrees, look at all my awards, look at all the stuff and things, but that doesn't tell a story.
You know, it is jღust a lot about you and not a lot about how you can help people and what your
services provide to help people get what they need becaus♍e they'r🦋e looking for what they want.
Alex
0:06:54
And that's a fundamental thing.
Mary
0:06:55
Yes. And we're absolutely g꧅oing to talk about that in messaging. The last thin🐭g I want to say about
why websites are so perfect for implementing StoryBrand is the call to⭕ action. So that's the purpose
of a website is to call someone to action and make them do a thi🅷ng. And StoryBrand helps you
iden🐭tify what those actions should be. And it's such a huge part of the website♒, it's such a huge part
Mary
0:07:17
of clarifying yo🔯ur message th♈at it works perfectly.
Alex
0:07:20
Yeah, no, that's a really g🌼ood point. And we call it the one thing, right? When we're t🧸alking, they ask
🌄you answer, but it's like really figuring out what that CTA, what that one thing is that you want people
to do. And we've se꧙en in the past, the more things that you have, the more options for people to
click on, the more confusing it potentially can be, the harde💎r it is to convert because people don't
know which way to go. So it'🍬s really important to thinꦑk about those things
Alex
0:07:41
and StoryBrand does a gre💜at job of doing exactly that. So🔥 my next question, right, what happens
w🍃hen people don't use StoryBrand or they don't implement this correctly and maybe some of the
problems that you've seen thro𒀰ugh your travels and through your experiences.
Mary
0:07:55
I see, I don't all s𒀰ee the good ones. I see a lot of the not so good ones.
Alex
0:07:58
And we don't have to call anybꩵody out. We can stay general 𒐪here.
Mary
0:08:01
Yeah, yeah.

 

Alex
0:08:01
But 🦄wh🌜at are some faux pas or things that you've seen where it didn't work or they weren't doing it
ꦫcorrectly and how it might have negatively affected their business?
Mary
0:08:09
The biggest issue I see with companies that do not us𓄧e StoryBr🎶and and do not implement this is
they have a confusing message. So whether they are victim ꦰto the curse of knowledge, where they
are just dumping level 10 complex concepts and jargon on༺ top of people's heads and they'🏅re sitting
there scratching their head
Mary
0:08:29
They don't understand what you're talki🗹ng ♏about that happens all the time Or they try to be clever
and they try to be funny and ෴they're not coca-cola So you can't get away with being clever You have
to ♎be clear Donald Miller says when yo♒u confuse you lose and I think that is the biggest thing that I
see with messaging the number one thing A♍nd w🐷hen people are confused it sends them directly into
the arms of your competitors.
Alex
0:08:51
Yeah, totally does.
Alex
0:08:52
And trying to be funny s♉ometimes, you may think you're funny, but it might not stick. And you might
not realize how you might be offending people. You might be really turning people off ꦦin a way that
they're going to your competition because you tꦉried to be funny and it 🀅didn't.
Mary
0:09:04
Alex, there's so many times when I will read a message and I will give a writer props and I'll say🍬,
that's﷽ really clever. We can't use that. I'm sorry, because that's not the goal. That's not what we're
going for. You can save it for some of your bl🤡og cꦬontent maybe,
Mary
0:09:20
but on our website we have to be cl♔ear. Clarity is king.
Alex
0:09:23
Yeah, totally.
Mary
0:09:24
Another issue, and you brought this up earlier, is that compaꦯnies so often focus entirely on
themselves. So we joke in my department that we call it the three little pigs of we𒁏b copy because it's
wee, wee, wee, wee, wee, all the way home because you know busജinesses will sa♎y we've been in
bus💟iness for ꦐ25 years and this is how we help people and we're so established
Mary

 

0:09:47
and we have all these credentials no one cares no one cares no one cares all t🐓hey care about is
how you can help them and sure you're 75 if you're of busi♔ness makes you qualified to help them
but t💫hat's all they car♑e about is how you're going to help them you have to stop talking about
yourself. You have to flip that script. 👍You have to make them the hero of the story. So that is
probably the number two thing
Mary
0:10:10
that I see people falling victim to all the time.
Alex
0:10:13
Okay.
Mary
0:10:14
The last one that I wanna bring up is lacking that clear next step.﷽ So you mentioned this a little bit
earlier with the call to action. And🍸 it is amazing to me how many websites I will see where either
there's no call to action on the page.
Mary
0:10:27
There's just no call to action, which i💦s mind-blowing. Or they have a call to action that isn't clear, or
it's luk♒ewarm, it's weak. And when people don't have a 🔯clear next step, they get very confused about
what they're supposed to do,✱ and most likely, they're just gonna leave.
Mary
0:10:41
They're gonna do nothing. So this is so critical to your process, so critical to🍎 your website🌄, so
important to your website being your best salespe☂rson that you've got to get t♎hat right.
Alex
0:10:53
Got to.
Alex
0:10:54
Got to get it right. And I've hea༺rd from a lot ൩of business owners like the common phrase or thing that
recurs a lot is my website doꦛesn't do anything for us. My website doesn't work. Ou🔥r website, we
spend all this money on our website and it doesn't conv🦩ert any leads or really do anything.
Alex
0:11:07
And the first question sho🐭uld be li🌞ke, well, let's take a look at the copy on your site and what's your
call to action and what are some of these key and funda🍌mental t🐬hings that people are really missing.
Mary
0:11:15
It's true. And it's fun🧸ny how many people seeꦕm mystified about the fact that their site doesn't do
anything for them because I think it's, these things are so basic, Alex. They're so꧋ fundamental, but I
think peo🌜ple miss them. It's very easy to miss about how clear, because when people try to be
competitive and they try to stand out in the ma🐈rket, that's when they try to get clever or that's when

 

they do the curse of knowledge thing and they dump all this st🅰uff on you You gotta pull it back.🥀 You
got to get back to those basics and y💙ou've got to really do t💃he fundamentals right to win
Mary
0:11:47
Yeah, I couldn't agree more
Alex
0:11:48
We actually had༒ been guide our head of web services he𒁏re on the show not too long ago And he
was saying the same thinღg where if he had to choose right you put him you put one 🌄of two options
on the table and you have to pick oꦯne a Very basic website where the messaging is great and
every🌠thing we're talking about right now is locked tight and it's very clear versus a very fancy, shiny🐼,
beautiful website that's designed well but doesn't have any of these sto𝓀ry brand elements. He's like,
I take the basic one all day because
Alex
0:12:14
at least that one will work and will get you the results you need. And then he said ove♏r time you can
iterate and you can add the polish and you can add🦋 those things. But🍌 a lot of times people go right to
step two and they want to be clever, they want🐷 to be competitive, they want to be artsy, and it
doesn't always work
Alex
0:12:29
out.
Mary
0:12:30
And one of the things, one of the reasons w🐓꧂hy that happens, and I've said the curse of knowledge a
🍌few times, and that is because when you are a business and you've got, you know everything about
everything, about your business, what you offer, your solutions, how you help people in your heaꦏd,
and that's the perspective peo♍ple have when they're redoing their websites or they're wr♔iting their
web copy, but your user dꦑoesn't have any of that. You need to bring it down from a ෴level 10 to
maybe a level 2.
Mary
0:12:57
And if I ever look at a website and I read your hero section and I sꦅay, wꦬhat do you do?
Alex
0:13:02
What do you do?
Mary
0:13:03
That's a really bad thing.
Mary
0:13:04
That's a huge probl🎉em. That is a huge problem, but it is so common. It's bananas. Yeah. So that
shoul😼d be your number one thing right𝔉 now, open your website, look at your hero with the eyes of
your prospect, and if it is not cl💧ear what you offer, how ꧋it makes life better, and how people can get

 

Mary
0:13:22
it, you need to update that right now.
Alex
0:13:24
Yeah, that's such a great point. I🐲 think, too, it's hard to step out of the bubble. So, like, if you're close
to it, if it's yo෴ur companꦬy, it's hard to objectively step out of that bubble and look at it, like you're
saying, where, like, is this header, is my home page really converting o𒁏r really clear? Do people
know what we do?
Alex
0:13:41
So sometimes, what would you say, like if you can't step back or if you꧃ feel too close to it, do you
recommend having outside people come in or what do you do in a situation like that where you 𒊎may
not know but you wanna know the truth even though it may be tough to ꦇfind out?
Mary
0:13:54
Yeah, so back ♌in﷽ the olden days, I might have said, you know, ask a friend or ask someone like that.
Now, AI, Alex, I'm gonna go immediately to Gemini o🐓r chat GPT and I'm going to pu꧒t that copy in
Gemini and I'm going to say, what questions would you have after 🥃reading this about my business?
Or how would you optimize this to be more cl👍ear or somet🦋hing? Ask the
Mary
0:14:16
robots. They're very good because they can look at things🐠 in black and white without any of that
indusܫtry inside stuff about your company. And they can give you that black and white feedback that
you need to say this is not good enough, tr🃏y writing it this way. So that would be my go-to right now.
Alex
0:14:33
That's a great call. AI ꦿhas been amazing with this stuff lately and it's only getting bett൲er. And I don't
want to get down the AI rabbit hole, but with GPT 4.0, I'm really excite൲d
Mary
0:14:42
to see what's going to come out.
Alex
0:14:43
Another episode.
Mary
0:14:44
We'll do another episode.
Alex
0:14:45
Yꦉeah, another episode. So we talk about trust and transparency all the time here. I feel like Marcus,
that's🅠 like his staple. That's what we represent here at I💫mpact. How does that play into StoryBrand
when you're trying to tell a story

 

Alex
0:14:56
and how that conveys into the we🌜bsite? We hit on this a little earlier,🌌 but I wanna lean a little deeper
into how important trus🎃t and transparency is. For instance, pricing. A lot of people don't put pricing
on their websites
Alex
0:15:06
and 🦄they try to keep that very close to the c💟hest. So can we talk a little bit about trust and
transparency?
Mary
0:15:11
Yeah, so I w🌳anna be very clear about this. 💧While StoryBrand is indeed about telling a story, it is not
selective storytelling, and it is not emotional manipulation.𒆙 I have had peopl💙e ask about this before,
because it's a fair question.
Mary
0:15:29
It's a, oh, I am penning some 🐻fiction. I am telling a story that I want to get people to༺ do the certain
outcome bas🧸ed oꦗn the things that I'm saying, and I'm setting the stakes and then I'm setting them up
for the value prop and it can feel kind of, you know, like you might b🅷e playing with people's emotions
because we say that at the beginning, right?
Mary
0:15:47
We're lever💦aging storytelling principles to elicit an emotional response. That's true, that's science,
but you have to be honest and you have to be tra꧅ns🎶parent. So what this means is you cannot shy
away from the messy parts of the hero's journey. You can't. Be honest about that.♚ And we talk about
this in They Ask, You Answer all the time.
Mary
0:16:10
When we talk about problems♋, when we talk about anything messy reg🧸arding the journey, you are
being more authentic. And people see that as yo🔯u being more authentic. And that 💃builds trust. You
can't hide that stu🍸ff. And it also means being realistic about what your solution ﷽can do. So you have
to also not over promise people things right when yoꦆu're tellin𒅌g the story. Be very honest
Mary
0:16:36
a🔥bout what your solution can do. Paint the picture accurately of how it makes life better and ꦕpeople
will be more apt to buy into t♒hat and to believe in that. So you mentioned cost. Cost is one of those
things that people again They recoil at a little bit because they say oh 🍨if I put cost on my website
People are gonna get freaked out and I need them to talk to my sales p🧸eople firꦡst They have to
know all the reasons why it does cos꧑t that way right our sales people a♋re so great
Alex
0:17:04
They're gonna be able to convert them ওright and hopefully your sales people are that great
Mary
0:17:08

 

But the reality is the reality is that if you don't have 🎉pricing on your we༒bsite, they're going to think you
have something to hide. They're going to get frustrated bec♕ause ༺they might find it somewhere else,
and t🦄hey might not even give your salesperson the time of day to explain the way yo✱u want them to
explain. If you put it right out there, it automatically buil🌠ds that trust.
Mary
0:17:31
It automatically makes you transparent🔴. And that's what storytelling reall🦩y should be about, is about
an open dialogue, about an hꩵonest dialogue where you're inviting questions. You want to invite any
question that anyone has, bring it on, we're going to answer it for you. I🐼 mean, that's the framework,
right?
Alex
0:17:49
That's the dream.
Mary
0:17:50
That's the whole thing.
Mary
0:17:51
That's the dre𒁃am. And that is what is, at the end of the day, going to get you more sales.
Alex
0:17:56
Get you more sales and🅘 establish you as a trusted voice in whatever space or industry that you're in.
Mary
0:18:00
Absolutely.
Alex
0:18:01
So fo🅘r business owners out there, for leaders out there that are marketing their sales leaders, how
do ꧒they go about i𒁏mplementing this, right? Obviously, read the book, go check out StoryBrand if you
haven't, but once you get acclimated❀ with StoryBrand, what's the best way to go
Alex
0:18:15
abouꦦt starting to implement this and to create a culture around this wit🐎hin your organization?
Mary
0:18:19
I'm gonna say it again, you jܫust said it, but I'm going to say again, if you want to get started with
Stor🌸yBrand, you must read the book. You must read the book. It is a quick read, it's a great read, i✨t's
engrossin💃g, but it's going to give you all the information you need
Mary
0:18:33
to really understanꦬd how powerful this framewor💙k is and to really help you understand how to clarify
your message. Because I didn't get 𒁏into, it's a seven-part framework. I didn't even get into the seven
different elements of stor♏ytelling that you need to know.

 

Mary
0:18:47
That's going to🌊 explain everything and help you understand how to go about filling out that
framework basically. The second👍 thing, you need to decide how much you're going to invest in this
buyer's journey and how deep of a journey you're going to go ༺on. And with any journey, you're🐈 going
to need a guide. And I know whe🐟n I'm saying this, Alex, I know someone's going to be like, all right,
here's
Mary
0:19:09
the pitch.
5
0:19:10
We're getting the pitch for the guide.
Mary
0:19:11
Yes, Impact helpꦛs people with this. Yes, we run these workshops all the time bec✨ause it does help
people because the problem I see wit🦩h people trying to do this on their own, and I have🐟 seen people
try to do it on th🔯eir own, is that there is no structure.
Mary
0:19:26
𝓡There's no expert guide who's been trained on how to get the most out of this. So what h✃appens is a
few things, either they have 10 standing meetings where they just 🎃end up going around in circles
and wasting a t𒆙on of time where nothing actually gets done.
Mary
0:19:41
They have a lot of conve꧑rsations. Nothing gets done. Or they have arguments because they can't
agree on the hero or the problem or what that aspirational identity sho✃uld be, and all they do is
🧸bicker. And there's no mediator there to get them back on track.
Alex
0:19:57
Right🌜, and to move the conversation forward in a meaningful way.
Mary
0:20:00
Ex🅷actly. And some people ♋will even fill out that seven part framework that I was talking about. And
then they'll sit𝐆 there and say, how do I implement this? What do I do? I mean, you filled out the
sheet, but how 𒆙do I get my entire company on board with StoryBrand? How do we roll this out? How
do we actually put it on our website? Because it's not a one to one framework to websi🍎te
necessarily.
Mary
0:20:20
There's work that has to be done. But ho🐽w do we implement it? And then they get stuck the🌠re. So
you 🌞can go it alone, and you might end up wasting a ton of time, you might end up with a ton of
headaches, you might end up

 

Mary
0:20:34
with some fighting and not talkin🐲g to your CEO for the next three weeks. Whatever it is, I've seen it
all. ✱So the guide is really what's going to ensure that you end up with a clear message, you
understand how to roll it out to your company,
Mary
0:20:48
and you end up with that website that's going to tell that story and clarify your🍃 message to the world.
Alex
0:20:54
Totally, totally. ꧑And accountability is a huge piece too. And that's something that coaches, it doesn't
have to be impact, but in general, coaches keep you accou♈ntable and make sure that on a weekly
basis
Alex
0:21:04
you're doing the things and you🅺're checking in and if not, you're putting a plan together to make sure
that you can catch up or do w🎃hat you needꦯ to do to stay on track with the goals that you set out from
the get go. So, it's really important.
Mary
0:21:15
Yeah, I just talked to 🎀a client, I'm not kidding you, just this week, where we were talking about
StoryBrand, and they 💯said, you know, we're gonna give it a 💎shot, we're gonna, they had a meeting
about it, and he came back to me and he said,
Mary
0:21:26
Mary, he's like, I don't know what we're doing. And he said, we had the meeting, ꧙we went in circles, I
ne🐓ed help, like how, cause I'm not gonna push, I'm not gonna say, you know, we can he🎃lp you with
that. And they tried it 🌠and he really said, I feel lik🌃e we wasted two hours.
Mary
0:21:45
So, headache, not worth it.
Alex
0:21:47
Well, and sometimes too, having a guide. Like, this is an analogy, but like, if y๊ou're going on a hike,
you're going vacation somewhere, and you're gonna go on a hike in t🃏he woods and you've neve🔜r
been in th✅ese woods before, you 🍰should probably go with somebody
Alex
0:21:59
that knows the woods and knows the trails so you don't get lost or something like൲ that. And it's the
same idea here where it's like you should pair🌟 with a coach or with some𝔍body that's done this
before, that's familiar with it, that c💖an do all the things that we just 🅷talked about. Keep you
accountable, keep you focused, figure♌ out how to have the right conversations that
Alex
0:22:14

 

you're 𒐪not wasting time and energy and you're getting very pointed in how to make𓄧 these changes.
Mary
0:22:18
I'm glad you said the right conversations because it really is so cr𒅌ucial to have someone someone to
put the guardrails on because anyone can have 🦹a conversation about who's oꦑur character. Anyone
can say, who's our villain? What are our problems? And come up with some sꦜtuff. But if you don't
have someone who knows, you know, for example, someone says, okaℱy, well,
Mary
0:22:40
our pr🧸oblem is, you know, that the industry is♒ really complex. And then you have to say, but what is
the root pro🌼blem here? What is the root cause? A🦩nd people often don't think that way. So you need
someone who's been here 🌳before. You need someone who's ꦜgone through the training,
Mary
0:22:56
who's wo🧸rked with so many different industries to be aꦐble to get you to where you have to go
because you might🃏 not know that you came up with the ♌wrong answer.
Alex
0:23:04
So true.
Alex
0:23:05
All right, so we know the importance of having a coach. I also want to as🤪k you since we got you here
an﷽d you work with a lot of clients, how does this play into t🍰he day-to-day for your team and the web
team building websites for impacts cliꦰents? Do you always recom🔥mend StoryBrand?
Alex
0:23:19
How does that play into how you build and design sites for our clien🅺tele?
Mary
0:23:23
Yeah, so r🍸egardless of what shape your website is in, regardless of🎶 your budget, regardless of
anything, starting🤪 with StoryBrand is table stakes for doing a new website. And some people might
think, you know, messaging first. Well, we have to talk about design. We🎉 💞have to talk about the page
strategy. We have to talk about things like that.
Alex
0:23:42
I want to look at color swatches.
3
0:23:44
Right?
Mary
0:23:45
Yeah. But we say you have to work with a coach first to go through the🥀 StoryBrand workshop so that
you can clarify your messa❀ging because that is going to be the thi🦂ng that anchors your home page.

 

Your whole story is anchored around that.🐭 That is the first thing that all of our clients who go through
a website redesign that we 🌠expect you to do. And we expect you to read the book.
Mary
0:24:07
We expect your whole organization who's going to be in the workshop to read the book and then ♛to
go through that exercise. And every single one comes out of th💯at workshop feeling immeꦏnsely better
aboutไ their story, about their message and saying, My gosh, I don't even know if we knew how
discombobulated and tangled our message was until we went through thiꦇs, and now it is so much
c💞leare🐓r, so much simpler. And then for me, it's a pretty easy application to the website. There are
some things that we have to do to it to make it🍌 fit♌ into that inherent structure
Mary
0:24:41
that I talked about. But it flows so beau♕tifully from doing that workshop into our homepage copy, and
then we understand how to tell that story o𒁏n our service pages, our solution pages, whatever they
are. And it really makes the messaging aspect of a website a lജot better.
Alex
0:25:02
It makes sense, too, bಞecause we d✨o the same thing in the video world, where if you don't have a
script that's locked down, you ⛄shouldn't really go shoot. Because inevitab♋ly what happens is you
shoot it, and then in the ed✨iting room, the client will go, ìOh, can we cha൩nge this copy and can we
change this?î And that means you have to go𓆏 back and reshoot, which I feel like for a developer, itís
probably
Alex
0:25:20
the same thing. If you donít have that copy an🉐d the branding laid out correctly and you develop this
whole page or multiple pages and then the client sees it and theyíre like, ìWe donít like the co🌄py.î
Youíre basically hitti👍ng the restart button again and having to go back to square one. So it sounds
like doing this framework and using StoryBrand allows you to hash all thes𒊎e things out ahead of
time. And then once you g🐎et it hashed out, it just streamlines
Alex
0:25:41
the whole process from b♉uilding out the site and getting it to where it needs t💯o be.
Mary
0:25:44
Absolutely. You can do it later. I will say it makes things harder. So different peop꧒le have different
budgets. They have di🌄fferent ways they have to go about doing things. And I have had people not
start with a story brand
Mary
0:25:56
workshop, and inevitab꧃ly, we get the website done. The website looks great. The coach will﷽ come
back and say, guess what? We're going back to 𒁃that home page. And the first thing we're going to
do is we're going to update that story because it is so critical,🌞 so hugely important to the success of
any conversion path that you have on 🌠your website. So we might do it out of order. It could happen,
Mary
0:26:21

 

but it🀅 can🍬't be ignored. It has to get done at some point.
Alex
0:26:24
Yeah, absolutely. This has been a great conversation. Any fi💯nal thoughts? Anything else th🧸at
business leaders or🥃 people that are thinking about StoryBrand are tಞhinking about redesigning their
website that they should know about ꦏbefore we close?
Mary
0:26:36
I will just s♛ay, a🧸gain, even though this is a very basic thing, even though this is a very fundamental
thing, it should be a top priority thing that💫 you do. Because I have people come to me all the 𝔉time
and they'll say, oh, I need more qual𝔍ified leads. We need more of this, we need more of 🅠that.
Mary
0:26:53
We're not converting well. When I talked before about root causes, a lot of the time that roo🐻t cause
can be traced back to your messaging, and it can be traced 🍎back to not having clear messaging and
having confusing messaging.
Mary
0:27:06
So I usually will tell people to go back to home bꦅase, start there, clarify your message first,🎶 and then
we can get into conversion rate optimization and things like that. But you can't overlook i𒅌t.
Alex
0:27:20
Well said. Very well said. I couꦓldn't agree more. Mary Brown, everybody, if they have questio🃏ns or
follow-up questions, i💞f they want to learn how to implement, i🐟f they want to talk to you about
coaching or whatever the case ꦓmay be, how can they get in touch with you𒁃?
Mary
0:27:30
Yeah. So I can be found in Impact Plus. I love hanging out in𓆉 Impact Plus and I love when people
send me messages there, so please do. I am there to help. Or y✅ou can find🐬 me on the website and I
have, you know, my door is open. I do have office hou🍸rs for🌜 things like this.
Alex
0:27:46
Excellent. Mary, thanks foꩲr being on the show. Yeah, happy to be here. Excellent. And for
ev♕erybody out there listening and watching, this is Endless Customers. Appreciate you tuning in and
we'll see you on the nജext episode. Apprecia🌸te you tuning in and we'll see you on the next episode.
Bye!

 

About This Episode

"If you confuse, you lose," Donald Miller reminds us in his 168极速赛车官网:StoryBrand framework. When it comes to business websites, companies often go clever or vague, leavin🦋g visitors scratching their heads and thinking, “Okay, but what do you actually do?” Miller’s principle underscores the importance of clarity and precision — and reminds us of just how quickly you can lose someone’s attention.  

In this episode of Endless Customers, Alex Winter speaks with Mary Brown, IMPACT’s lead web strategist, about how SꩲtoryBrand can help businesses refine their messaging to deliver a better website ﷽experience.

”People naturally connect with stories,” she🀅 explains, and advises businesses to “leverage stories to help people emotionally connect tᩚᩚᩚᩚᩚᩚ⁤⁤⁤⁤ᩚ⁤⁤⁤⁤ᩚ⁤⁤⁤⁤ᩚ𒀱ᩚᩚᩚo your messaging." 

Unlike traditional marketing approaches, StoryBrand flips the script, positioning the customer in the center (as  “the hero” in Miller’s language), with a focus on solving that customer’s problem instead of boasting about business accomplishments.This shift helps to 168极速赛车官网:build trust and set clear stakes, showing customers what they🅘 stand to gain by choosing your product or service.

Connect with Mary

Mary Brown is the lead website strategist at IMPACT, and she has l𒁃ent her expertise to website projects in dozens of industri♌es. 

Get to know Mary

Connect with Mary on

Learn more about how IMPACT’s team delivers the website your customerဣs want

Keep Learning

• Watch: 168极速赛车官网:Is a New Website Worth the Cost?
• Read: 168极速赛车官网:How to Hire Your In-House Website Spec🔯ialist
• Test your site: 168极速赛车官网:Free Website Performance Assessment

__

is a podcast produced and distributed by IMPACT, a sales and marketing training organization.

We coac♈h businesses to implement our They Ask, You Answer framework to build trust and fill their pipeline. 

For inquiries about spoꦡnsorship op𒅌portunities or to be considered as a guest, email awinter@hexuchuanmei.net.

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